Curse

Wild Karrde · Mar 06, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

I searched for a post like this and didnt find one. So I apologize in advance if there is one around here somewhere.

I was so excited when I learned there was going to be a Strength based heal coming for the warriors in Night Fall. Now I dont know which one is really better, they both have pros and cons.

Heal sig first:
Pros: You dont have to pour a whole lot of points into Tactics to get a decent heal from Healing signet. It recharges pretty quick so its spammable. It requires no energy (hence signet >.<)

Cons: - 40 AL while using it HURTS BAD and its easily interupted.

Lions Comfort:
Pros:Its Strength based, so you can put alot of points into strenght to make those skills effective without sacrificing a heal skill. points in Strenght will heal you and any points in tactics will give a "bonus" heal. Not as easily interupted as Heal Sig, and there no negative armor penalty when using it.

Cons:It requires Adrenaline, meaning you HAVE TO hit people in order to use it. Cant use it whenever you want, and once you use it after a fight you cant use it again untill you find another fight to get into. Doesnt heal for as much as heal sig. Also it gets to a point that you got ALOT of adrenaline skills on your bar.

I personally dont really like using hardly any of the tactics skills, Only ones I really like are Watch yourself cause it affects your whole party and heal sig. And I will NEVER spam the Riposte skills cause I prefer to kill my opponents with my weapon not by using cheap 'I cant kill you on my own" spells.
So yeah I like strength, I just think the skills in ther are better.

But what is better Healing signet or Lions Comfort. And why couldnt Anet just make a Heal Sig for strength as well as Tactics.

Well I've said enough and I know Ill get my fair comments of being called a noob or a retard for somethings I said but oh well. Let the comments begin. And if you are going to post a comment dont just say "Heal Sig is better, Lions Comfort Sucks" or anything along those lines. Tell me what is better and then more importantly give me your reasons WHY.

Thanks in Advance!!

SleetDragon · Mar 06, 2007, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Well your arguments for both are valid but the -40 armor can be softened a bit with "Watch Yourself!". So depending on the level on your armor if you have 100 vs. Phys and 90 vs. Ele thats 80 vs. Phys and 70 vs. ele rather than 60 and 50. So if you can use "Watch Yourself!" effectively with Healing Signet during a fight it works aswell as lions comfort then once the fight is over you may use the sig till you are fully healed. Now Lions comfort may save you skills and perhaps attribute points if you prefer strength, but as for I, I stick with "Watch Yourself!" and Healing Sig.

P.S. It would be nearly impossible to use Lions comfort when running.

Coloneh · Mar 06, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Never go without healing sig. Lion's is to conditional. you could take it along in addition to healing sig if you have an extra slot.

Viruzzz · Mar 06, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

its situational. i would personally prefer signet, tactics seems to generally be better than strength. (besides, it seems lion's comfort actually heals for almost the same from your tactics attribute as it does from the strength one.)

the signet is more spamable, if you're not getting attacked, and not attacking yourself you can stand still and heal. lions needs adrenalin, making it a lot more risky.

Eldin · Mar 06, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Healing Signet is a classic, and I think most people would say it's better.

The adrenaline cost for Lion's Comfort is silly as, at least in my case, healing signet is mostly used in passive activities such as running and tanking. When I am actually fighting I mostly rely on the monk, and healing signet isn't as big a priority.

Plus, again primarily from what I've seen, unless you are running, warriors invest more in tactics than strength. My W/Mo's party build (as in generic mission/explorable area build) has axe mastery at 11, tactics at 14 (for healing sig and a tanking stance), healing prayers at 8 for minor party support and then 5 in strength just for sprint.

Lagg · Mar 06, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Warriors are not meant to have excellent healing potential due to their inherent high armor class and survival skills.

In PvE, don't take any self-heal, simply rely on the party healers. If things get too rough, you can always use Endure Pain or, even better, Signet of Stamina. Stop attacking, hit Stamina, wait for the heal, carry on with the fight.

If the heal didn't come, chances are things went seriously wrong in the first place, so why would you even need a weak self-heal if the rest of your party is wiped or busy running their legs off in the opposite direction. You're going to be monster food soon, so your best option is to retreat. Once again, your best friend is Signet of Stamina (and a speed boost to break aggro).

In PvP, if your team requires you to take a self-heal, nothing beats Healing Signet. You won't be healing yourself under fire anyway. Warriors are not, what you would call, priority targets. Not to mention you can keep on repeating Healing Signet till you are fully healed.

To top it all off, Lion's Comfort disables signets for 12 seconds... Sure, you can "bypass" this by using your signets first and activating Lion's Comfort before the signets have 12 seconds left to recharge, but it's still a tremendous drawback if you consider the number of awesome signets available to a Warrior (Dolyak, Stamina, heck even Purge Signet as /Mo).

tl;dr version:

Warriors shouldn't self-heal in (balanced) PvE. Healing Signet is king in PvP.

dr1zz one · Mar 06, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Lions Comfort con - re-recharge of signets.

depending on build....i prefer Heal Sig most of the time.
There are occasions where I have a strength based build with no signets where Ill put in Lions Comfort. In these cases I usually run enraging charge which can give me 2 Lions Comforts in sucession if needed.

OT. Dont bash riposte. It is a skill that can be used very effectively in certain situations. It blocks a melee attack against you and does a good deal of damage back. But you apparently dont know that.

kazjun · Mar 06, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

I'd say it depends. For pve, if you're looking for a general heal, then heal sig is better. If you're looking for healing mid combat, maybe lions. If you're an axe warrior with triple chop/cyclone axe or sword with hundred blades then you can afford to spam lions all through battle. You shouldn't even need any monk healing. If you're running single target skills, you could do the same but I'd seriously think it over. Running eviserate or dragon slash, or any other single hit skill, you want to use your adren for attacks to spike or dps. Each time you use lions, you're draining adren from your other skills lowering your damage output. And after all, you won't need healing if your enemies are all dead. Kill them quick enough, you should heal from just regen running to the next battle.

In pvp, I'd stick to relying on you dedicated healers. Look after them, and they'll look after you. Or carry heal sig. Just remember to actually run back a bit so you're not actually activating heal sig in full view of an opposing team...

DunedainJedi · Mar 06, 2007, 05:01 AM // 05:01

It depends on what you're doing.

For example, I did Abbadon's Gate tonight, Lion's was the better skill because I had high adrenaline throughout the battle. Using that plus Troll Ugnaunt helped my parties healers a lot.

It depends on your skill bar, but in most cases signet is better in between battles and Lion's is good for in the middle of the fray.

SleetDragon · Mar 06, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

Warriors are not meant to have excellent healing potential due to their inherent high armor class and survival skills.

In PvE, don't take any self-heal, simply rely on the party healers. If things get too rough, you can always use Endure Pain or, even better, Signet of Stamina. Stop attacking, hit Stamina, wait for the heal, carry on with the fight.

If the heal didn't come, chances are things went seriously wrong in the first place, so why would you even need a weak self-heal if the rest of your party is wiped or busy running their legs off in the opposite direction. You're going to be monster food soon, so your best option is to retreat. Once again, your best friend is Signet of Stamina (and a speed boost to break aggro).

In PvP, if your team requires you to take a self-heal, nothing beats Healing Signet. You won't be healing yourself under fire anyway. Warriors are not, what you would call, priority targets. Not to mention you can keep on repeating Healing Signet till you are fully healed.

To top it all off, Lion's Comfort disables signets for 12 seconds... Sure, you can "bypass" this by using your signets first and activating Lion's Comfort before the signets have 12 seconds left to recharge, but it's still a tremendous drawback if you consider the number of awesome signets available to a Warrior (Dolyak, Stamina, heck even Purge Signet as /Mo).

tl;dr version:

Warriors shouldn't self-heal in (balanced) PvE. Healing Signet is king in PvP.

I can tell from your statement that when you die its always the monk's fault. Healers are there to support you not to keep you alive. Self heals are a good balance anywhere in PVE especially when adventuring alone. You say Warriors arent meant to have excellent healing but with a attributes leveled to 10 in tactics Healing Signet heals for almost as much as a Heal other from a Monk.
And this arguably goes for your second paragraph, if things go wrong you being a Warrior you are most likely going to die first, and since you pressed that Endure Pain and the Monks ran out of energy your gonna think oh I have 200 health left, then as soon as it ends you're on the ground. You need a self heal to counter that when you rush out of battle with just 200-100 Health left cause once it ends there is no point to have left the battle.
If you have a decent team there should only be occasional cases you would ever need to break aggro (i.e. To many groups attached, Monks have not recharged, etc...).
Your arguments for Lions comfort are valid and Its true, but there is usually only one Signet I keep on my skill bar for any normal PVE enviroment and that is Healing Signet. Now grant there are areas that require these signets and it would not be advisable to bring Lion's comfort anyway.
I think Lion's comfort is not useless but it by no means sounds superior to the Healing Signet from most of everyone's comments. I suppose like many other skills there are times to use it and times not to use it. But as it stands my vote will be Healing Signet for the Superior Heal.

Undressed · Mar 06, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

In PvE no warrior will need any form of sealf-heal unless farming. Monks are there for full healing, condition removal, not just "support". That's a Paragon's work maybe or a Rit.

SleetDragon · Mar 06, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

In PvE no warrior will need any form of sealf-heal unless farming. Monks are there for full healing, condition removal, not just "support". That's a Paragon's work maybe or a Rit.

So what if they're a Smiting monk? Not all Monks are there to Fully Heal you some are there strictly to protect not to heal. Begging for a Monk to heal you is ignorance. Even the best monks can see all the spike so if they die what are you gonna do then? Using a Monk as an excuse for not using Self-Heal is rather ignorant.

Undressed · Mar 06, 2007, 03:33 PM // 15:33

It's PvE. No need to blow it up.

I either monk with people I know or I choose Tahlkora and Dumbkoro (90% of the time). No need for anything else, ever.

You enjoy your virtual chivalry, I avoid bad players and myths like "tanking".

Why I would ever have the need to beg is beyond me. Get off your horse.

ss1986v2 · Mar 06, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

So what if they're a Smiting monk? Not all Monks are there to Fully Heal you some are there strictly to protect not to heal. Begging for a Monk to heal you is ignorance. Even the best monks can see all the spike so if they die what are you gonna do then? Using a Monk as an excuse for not using Self-Heal is rather ignorant.

again, is a matter of choice as far as pve goes. i, for example, run almost exclusively with guildies. i know their skill level, their bars, and their roles. so in this case, a self heal becomes a wasted skill slot: i never use it, because i never need it. they actually prefer that i dont bring a self heal, and save that slot for more dmg or utility.

SleetDragon · Mar 06, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undressed

It's PvE. No need to blow it up.

I either monk with people I know or I choose Tahlkora and Dumbkoro (90% of the time). No need for anything else, ever.

You enjoy your virtual chivalry, I avoid bad players and myths like "tanking".

Why I would ever have the need to beg is beyond me. Get off your horse.

It is not virtual chivalry its stimply staying alive long enough to do the damage you must then move on. Most of the time the Warrior is put at the front to defer the focus off the casters. You yourself are there to keep them distracted and add extra damage. You may choose to rely on your monks and there is nothing wrong with that. But there may be a time that you had wished you hadnt.
You wouldnt beg, and Im not on a horse but I believe a Self-Heal should be more than welcome in any enviroment. The whole point of Tactics attribute for a Warrior is to "Stay Alive".
I agree that Monking with guildies and people you know make you feel secure enough not to bring it. But as for as I go I dont ever feel its a waste to bring it just in case there are any mistakes.And mistakes do happen often even in the best groups.

Moa Bird Cultist · Mar 06, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Healing Signet is king. Lions Comfort is garbage. No self heal in PvE is really quite silly, especially in a pug. Even if you have guildies monking, that doesn't stop them from sucking at it - I have first hand experience of this, trust me, you don't want to take something so important for granted. Oh, and Heal as One on a W/R is better than both of them put together

EDIT- Also, strength has yet to find a use in any situation; even "tanks" don't need it. Even with monks healing, what reason would you have for taking endure pain over healing signet?

Undressed · Mar 06, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Why tank at all? You can "flail" and "earthshaker" (FGJ, TTL etc.) multiple foes to the ground, disrupting chop, cyclone axe, eviscerate, distracting blow (multiple foes again) etc..

I believe tanking makes very lazy/bad players.

DunedainJedi · Mar 06, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Deciding if you need a self heal depends on what you're doing. I normally bring one if I'm using Henchies/Heroes. If I'm with my guild it depends where we are.

For example, if we're doing the Consulate Docks I'm not going to bring a heal; if we're at Gate of Madness I will.

What exactly do you mean by 'Tanking'? When I play I try to grab aggro, and hack then to death.

Bitis Gabonica · Mar 07, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

Heal Siggy all the way :-)

LightningHell · Mar 07, 2007, 03:41 AM // 03:41

I don't like bringing a selfheal. Let your support do the job. The main usage of selfheals in high-end PvP is when you have splits, of which Healing Signet is clearly better since you do not need to hit anyone to heal - you would probably be running away rather than hitting anyone if you need heals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

its situational. i would personally prefer signet, tactics seems to generally be better than strength. (besides, it seems lion's comfort actually heals for almost the same from your tactics attribute as it does from the strength one.)

the signet is more spamable, if you're not getting attacked, and not attacking yourself you can stand still and heal. lions needs adrenalin, making it a lot more risky.

I would actually venture to say that none of the Tactics skills really impress me enough for me to put it on as a warrior staple except for Healing Signet, and perhaps "Charge!" and "Watch Yourself!".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg

...

Warrior Signets suck. Most of them, anyway, excluding Healing Signet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

I can tell from your statement that when you die its always the monk's fault. Healers are there to support you not to keep you alive. Self heals are a good balance anywhere in PVE especially when adventuring alone. That's not a "balanced" party, nor normal PvE. You say Warriors arent meant to have excellent healing but with a attributes leveled to 10 in tactics Healing Signet heals for almost as much as a Heal other from a Monk. Without Divine Favor...? I'd say it heals for about an Orison.
And this arguably goes for your second paragraph, if things go wrong you being a Warrior you are most likely going to die first, and since you pressed that Endure Pain and the Monks ran out of energy your gonna think oh I have 200 health left, then as soon as it ends you're on the ground. You need a self heal to counter that when you rush out of battle with just 200-100 Health left cause once it ends there is no point to have left the battle.
If you have a decent team there should only be occasional cases you would ever need to break aggro (i.e. To many groups attached, Monks have not recharged, etc...). If you have a decent party, you don't need a selfheal at all.

By the way, he was attacking Lion's Comfort, so I think you quoted the wrong person or sth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

So what if they're a Smiting monk? Not all Monks are there to Fully Heal you some are there strictly to protect not to heal. Begging for a Monk to heal you is ignorance. Even the best monks can see all the spike so if they die what are you gonna do then? Using a Monk as an excuse for not using Self-Heal is rather ignorant.

Air of Enchantment smiters would be able to keep up the party. I haven't seen many successful smiters except for E/Mos and Air of Enchantment smiters.

And of course, there are Protection monks. Actually, Protection Prayers is more efficient than Healing by far. But that doesn't stop him using Gift of Health, Zealous Benediction - hell, Signet of Devotion and Reversal of Fortune help too.

Using bad monks as an excuse to waste a skillslot is rather ignorant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

It is not virtual chivalry its stimply staying alive long enough to do the damage you must then move on. Most of the time the Warrior is put at the front to defer the focus off the casters. You yourself are there to keep them distracted and add extra damage. You may choose to rely on your monks and there is nothing wrong with that. But there may be a time that you had wished you hadnt.
You wouldnt beg, and Im not on a horse but I believe a Self-Heal should be more than welcome in any enviroment. The whole point of Tactics attribute for a Warrior is to "Stay Alive".
I agree that Monking with guildies and people you know make you feel secure enough not to bring it. But as for as I go I dont ever feel its a waste to bring it just in case there are any mistakes.And mistakes do happen often even in the best groups.

Most of the time the Warrior is put to the front to smash some face. Even so, if you're getting damaged in PvE, chances are you'll be getting more damage coming your way, and Healing Signet wouldn't really be too helpful.

Oh, and tanking sucks.